captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions >> lehrer: good evening. i'm jim lehrer. the republican-led wisconsin legislature stripped nearly all collective bargaining rights from public workers today. >> woodruff: and i'm judy woodruff. on the "newshour" tonight, we get the latest on today's vote and the protests in the state's capital from frederica freyburg of wisconsin public television. >> lehrer: then, we look at today's house hearings on terrorism and islamic radicals in america. margaret warner talks with congressmen keith ellison and michael mccaul. >> woodruff: "frontline's" martin smith has an exclusive

interview with brian manning, father of accused wikileaks source private bradley manning on his son's imprisonment. >> his clothing is being taken away from-- he's being humiliated by having to stand at attention in front of people-- male, or female, as far as i know, you know, that are fully clothed. >> lehrer: and republican congresswoman kay granger discusses cuts in foreign aid. >> lehrer: that's all ahead on tonight's "newshour." major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: >> you can't manufacture pride, but pride builds great cars. and you'll find in the people at toyota, all across america.

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>> lehrer: the battle in wisconsin over union rights reached a turning point today. after weeks of protests and a legislative stalemate, republicans claimed victory. furious protesters tried to shove their way into the state capitol building in madison today. at least 50 were carried out by police, and the building was locked down briefly. the protests were aimed at last night's surprise action by the state senate. majority republicans approved a bill to strip most collective bargaining rights from public employees. democrats had boycotted the senate for three weeks to prevent a quorum and block action. but republicans finally got around that obstacle with a simple procedural move. >> so ordered, the senate is adjourned. >> lehrer: then, they exited their chamber to a chorus of jeers. thousands more waited outside.

>> it's outrageous! it is absolutely outrageous what they've done. >> lehrer: the news quickly reached the 14 senate democrats who'd been boycotting. >> they had an agenda, they knew they were going to go do it no matter what and they did it tonight. >> that's not democracy, that's >> lehrer: but today, republican governor scott walker insisted it's the democrats who should be shamed. >> the dirty trick is what those 14 have played for the last four weeks. i mean, the fact of the matter is we live in a democracy and to participate in the democracy, you've got to be in the arena. and the arena's not in rockport, it's not in shreeveport, it's not in chicago. it's in madison, wisconsin in our capitol. and the fact that three weeks ago they gave up the right every day they stayed out of the capitol thave a vote on that measure. >> lehrer: a short time later, the republican-controlled state assembly also passed the bill, over the complaints of democrats. >> if you think that this is ok for us to conduct business in

this fashion, you'd have to be living on a different planet. >> lehrer: the measure now goes to walker who says he'll sign it as soon as he can, legally. and to frederica freyberg of wisconsin public television. is there any word on when the governor is is actually going to sign the bill. >> we just left his office this afternoon, and he said he's not signing it tonight but leaves open the door that he may well sign it tomorrow. he said as soon as possible. >> lehrer: what was this simple procedure move that was used last night by the senate? >> well, what the senate did was they called a conference committee of six members of the senate and the assembly. only one was a democrat, that being in the assembly. and this conference committee then passed this amended vegz

version of this bill, and under this conference committee, they were able to pass it over the objections of that democrat, and then send it directly to the senate floor. and they said they were able to do this because they were in special session and had good cause. now the democrats are crying foul saying there wasn't adequate notification of this meet so they're saying it's a violation of the open meetings law. but the republicans say it's been all squared with all of their legal authorities, and that under this rule of good cause in a special session, they were able to strip the appropriations out of the original bill, and then vote this through, and basically then taking the collective bargaining language and passing that last night and again today in the assembly. >> lehrer: by taking the appropriations out, that meant they did not need a quorum required when it was in that, correct? >> that's-- that's-- that's what they're saying. the democrats reject that and suggest that they may well, in

fact, go to court over that, over of the language in the bill because the governor had been saying all along that this was a fiscal bill, and so the collective bargaining needed to stay in it, and the senate originally had said that because it was a fiscal bill, they needed the democrats to be there for the quorum. but now, apparently, it has to do with appropriations in the bill, as opposed to anything that had fiscal consequence, because, of course, the collective bargaining language in the bill does have fiscal consequence in part because under this bill, employees, state employees, local employees school employees, are required to pay more for their health care contributions, and for their pension contributions. >> lehrer: as you say, this is probably going to be sorted out in somebody's courtroom; is that correct? >> well, that's-- that's what the democrats and the unions are saying. the next step for this is in the courts. there has already been a complaint filed on the part of the assembly.

democrats in the district attorney's office, over the open meetings law, alleged violation. the attorney general here in wisconsin says he is looking at that because the justice department is in charge of open meetings laws, and then they also suggest that there could be lawsuits over the language of the bill itself. and then the unions are filing complaints over labor law violations. >> lehrer: this thing could go on for a while. >> well, what we're expecting so. and we expect that the demonstration and the protests will keep up, even though this is all over virtually legislatively, except the governor signing it into law. there are major protests planned for this weekend. they were planned before. we expect there to be great numbers at those protests, as there were last night when this thing happened so quickly in the

senate. protesters virtually, you know crashed the capitol. the police ended up kind of standing down. there were more than six,000, as many as 7,000 demonstrators, protesters in the capitol last night, which is a larger number than there has been to date. >> lehrer: have the democratic senators returned to the state of wisconsin? >> the democratic senators are returning in a trickle, it would appear to us. some say they're staying put. others we've heard are returning some going home to their districts. we don't know exactly who's coming back when, but they're certainly coming back because it would appear to us that there's nothing any more to stay away for. >> lehrer: just in a word uthe atmosphere there tonight, how would you describe it? >> i think tonight, at this hour

the atmosphere on the part of the demonstrators is probably dejected. earlier, they were very fired up. they were angry. they were still kind of in a state of shock. but i think that it's likely they will regroup and show great numbers this weekend in and around the capitol building. >> lehrer: but there's a sense of victory among the republicans of course, right? >> no doubt. absolutely. and they have said that this is what they needed, and they just wanted this to stop, these weeks of stalling and the 70 hours-plus of testimony on the assembly floor on the part of the democrats. they just wanted this to move along. because they say what they need are these provisions in this budget repair bill, which is what this is all about, to make their two-year budget work which has already been introduced and calls for deep cuts in k-12 education and in money to local and municipal governments. and so without the provisions of

the extra contributions on the part of public employees, the governor says that those local governments and schools cannot manage those cuts without these provisions that were just passed today. >> lehrer: okay, frederica, thank you very much. >> woodruff: still to come on the "newshour": house hearings on radical muslims in america; the father of a wikileaks source speaks out and congresswoman granger on foreign aid. but first, the other news of the day. here's kwame holman. >> holman: wall street was battered today by waves of economic worries. disappointing data from china and the u.s. and new fears about europe's debt crisis fed the sell-off. the dow jones industrial average lost 228 points to close at 11,984-- its biggest drop since last august. the nasdaq fell 50 points to close at 2,701. forces loyal to libyan leader moammar qaddafi blasted a key oil port with tanks and warplanes today and claimed they'd recaptured it.

the target was the city of ras lanouf, which rebel fighters had seized a week ago. we have a report from lindsey hilsum of "independent television news." >> reporter: the skies were clear for colonel qaddafi's fighter jets today. the bombs fall percely close to the oil refinery. earlier, one landed within the perimeter fence. we drive past. it's a storage-- if the storage tanks of oil and gas were hit, the areas for miles around would be devastated. we stop, and another falls. that's the second bomb we've seen falling in the last half hour. the fighting is heavy. i can hear the thud of artillery it seems colonel qaddafi's force are determined. maybe what they want is the oil refinery. we were on sand dunes which

artillery came. inspect the rebels say they've been fired on from three directions. mortars and shells kill more than arial bombardments. bomb after bomb fell today, and that's what they fear the most. they're calling on nato and the u.n.. >> airplane, big weapon. >> there's a certain sense of panic here now. who's in charge? >> allies? in the capital benghazi, they were demonstrating, hoping somehow this would make it look more like an uprising again, and less than a civil war. a bomb even hit brega, another sign colonel qaddafi is determined to destabilize rebel

territories. rebel forces want international support but no one is riding to their rescue. they're on their own, pointing into the sky, never knowing when the next bomb will fall. the qaddafi government also claimed again it had recaptured zawiyah, just outside tripoli. reports from that town told of heavy destruction. and one of qaddafi's sons saif al-islam warned of much more to come. he said, "it's time for action. we are moving now." france today became the first country to recognize a rebel group in libya as the legitimate government. in paris, french president nicolas sarkozy met with two representatives of the libyan interim governing council. meanwhile, european union foreign ministers convened in brussels. the portuguese foreign minister said he met with qaddafi representatives yesterday and delivered this message. >> ( translated ): from the international community's point of view and portugal is on the sanctions committee against libya, the qaddafi regime is

over. regarding its legitimacy, it is over. but tripoli must start a national dialogue with the opposition, work on a ceasefire as soon as possible to keep the >> holman: also in brussels, nato defense ministers began two days of meetings. they announced the start of round-the-clock surveillance of libyan air space. secretary-general anders fogh rasmussen said nato also will send more ships to the region. and, he said a no-fly zone was discussed. but in washington, secretary of state hillary clinton told a congressional hearing there needs to be an international consensus before any action. >> i am one of those who believes that absent international authorization the u.s. acting alone would be stepping into a situation whose consequences are unforeseeable. and i know that is the way our military feels. it's easy for people to say do this do that, and then they turn and say ok u.s. go do it. another top member of the

administration caused a stir today over libya. the director of national intelligence james clapper told a senate hearing: "we believe that qaddafi is in this for the long haul." he went on to say that libya's large arsenal means that the regime will prevail. asked about the comments later, national security advisor tom donilon said, "that's a one- dimensional view." police in saudi arabia opened fire today on a rally in the eastern city of qatif. several hundred shiite protesters demonstrated for political reforms. witnesses said police broke up the rally with shots and stun grenades. at least, four people were hurt. saudi authorities have warned of strong action against any attempt to mount large protests. in yemen, thousands of demonstrators turned out again for major protests. once more they demanded that president ali abdullah saleh step down. and, they rejected saleh's call for a new constitution that guarantees the independence of the parliament and the courts. meanwhile, in cairo, egypt,

crowds were gone from tahrir square after clashes yesterday between rival groups. the egyptian army cleared everyone out, along with their tents and gear. the president of ivory coast imposed a no-fly order today on u.n. aircraft in his west african country. laurent gbagbo has refused to step down, despite losing his re-election bid last year. the election winner alassane ouattara left ivory coast for a meeting today, using a u.n. helicopter. gbagbo's no-fly order could make it difficult for ouattara to return. president and mrs. obama turned the white house limelight on the problem of school bullies today. the president convened a conference of students, educators, parents and other experts. he said he was harassed as a child, because of his name and appearance. and, he said he rejects the notion that it's no big deal. >> if there's one goal of this conference, it's to dispel the myth that bullying is just a harmless rite of passage, or an inevitable part of growing up.

it's not. bullying can have destructive consequences for our young people and it's not something we have to accept. >> holman: a number of cases in recent months of bullying that led to suicides have drawn national attention. those are some of the day's major stories. now, back to jim. >> lehrer: and to a house hearing that's sparked a national debate. margaret warner has our story. >> warner: the line outside the homeland security committee room stretched down the halls of the cannon house office building-- a sign of the intense interest today's hearing generated from the moment it was announced. right at the start, committee chairman, new york republican peter king, rejected criticism that he was singling out one religious group. >> let me make it clear today, that i remain convinced that these hearings must go forward, and they will. to back down would be a craven surrender to political correctness, and an abdication of what i believe to be the main

responsibility of this committee, to protect america from a terrorist attack. >> warner: king pointed to a spate of homegrown terror cases in recent years, in which american muslims have been accused: last year's attempted bombing in times square; the failed plot to attack the new york city subway system in 2009 and the fort hood, texas shootings that killed 13 and wounded 30. indeed, this past weekend, deputy national security advisor denis mcdonough echoed what others in the obama administration have said that al qaeda is actively trying to recruit u.s. citizens. >> they make videos, create internet forums, even publish online magazines, all for the expressed purpose of trying to convince muslim americans to reject their country and attack their fellow americans. >> warner: but today's first witness objected to the premise democratic representative keith ellison of minnesota, the first muslim elected to congress,

told of a man who rushed into the twin towers on 9/11 to save others, but was, for a time, a suspect himself. >> mohammed salman hamdani was a fellow american who gave his life for another americans. his life should not be identified as just a member of an ethnic group or just a member of religion, but as an american who gave everything for his fellow americans. >> warner: zuhdi jasser, of the american islamic forum for democracy, agreed but said the muslim community needs to acknowledge there's a significant problem with radicalization. >> you know, listen, i'm muslim and i realize it's my problem and i need to fix it, and that's what i'm trying to do. so we can close our eyes and pretend it doesn't exist. we can call everybody a bigot or an islamophobe if they even talk about it, but you're not going to solve the problem, and the problem is increasing exponentially. >> warner: the main panel also included two fathers whose sons

were recruited into by radical groups. melvin bledsoe's son, carlos, has been charged with killing an army private outside an arkansas recruiting station. he warned other muslim american young people are at risk. >> this is a big elephant in the room. our society continues not to see it. this is wrongly called political correctness. you can even call it political fear. i must say that we are losing american babies. our children are in danger. >> warner: still, much of the members' comments focused not on what turns young people into radicals, but on whether even holding such a hearing was appropriate. >> you see, it has already been tainted, this hearing. there are no loud signs of reasoning that are coming through this hearing. the reason is it has already been classified as an effort to

demonize and to castigate a whole broad base of human beings. i cannot stand for that. >> the focus of this hearing today is not islamic religion, it's islamicits. it's the radical jihadists. it's the radicalization of our youth as mr. bledsoe and mr. bihi have talked about. and i think it's absolutely critical that we as a nation focus on exactly what i was taught in the united states marine corps, know your enemy. >> warner: for his part, los angeles county sheriff leroy baca told the committee that from what he sees, muslim americans are concerned and willing to cooperate with law enforcement. >> the truth is that muslims are just as independent, just as feisty, just as concerned about safety. they certainly don't want their mes or their mosques blown up. and thereby, as individuals,

they have been doing things with local law enforcement without the cover-- so to speak-- of an organization. >> warner: the hearing adjourned after four hours, but chairman king has aid he plans to hold additional sessions in the future. for two different perspectives from congressmen involved in today's hearing, we're joined by republican michael mccaul of texas. he's a member of the homeland security committee. and minnesota democrat keith ellison, the first muslim elected to congress. he served as a witness today, as we just saw. welcome to you both. congressman ellison, even before this hearing began, you branded the whole premise of it as mccarthyistic. after taking part today, is that what it felt like to you? >> well, i still challenge the basic premise of the hearing. i think that when you look at a serious so theally wide program like violent extremism, but then to associate it with only one religious community or one

racial group or one ethnicity, i think that that is the very heart of scapegoating, and i think our history with scapegoating has never been good. japanese internment comes to mind. but i do think there is a way, or could have been a way to have a hearing like this that could have been effective and that would start with having a lot of witnesses who had real law enforcement experience, who offered some understanding from a scientific standpoint on something we could build policy on. i want to say that the individuals who testified at the hearing, except for sheriff back aare people who i do sympathize with, and i think it's important for us to acknowledge their pain and what they went through, but we need information that we can build policy around, and heartfelt anecdotes, unfortunately, though interesting and important, simply are not what we need to build policy. after all, we're congress. we make the laws.

and we should have some good, solid law enforcement expertise in order to achieve this task. >> congressman mccall, how did it feel to you? did you learn anything from today's hearing about the extent or causes of radicallization among young muslims? >> i did. i think, first of all, this is an important dialogue i think for the nation to have, as mr. bled so said whose son was radicalized, there is a pink elephant in the room. i think we should talk about it. let me say, also, the committee is not targeting the muslim community and i respect congressman ellison a great deal. it's akd attempting to radicalize them. i think that's what we tried to point out with the 27 terror plots in the last two years involving radical extremism that we need to be paying close attention to as the next generation of terrorists. i thought the father and the uncle's testimony was very emotional and very persuasive in

terms of these two mosques that, unfortunately, perverted the muslim faith, took them this the wrong direction, essentially held them hostage, and they ended up in so maulia and yemen. one was shot in the head in somaulia, and the other one returned from yem tone kill two u.s. soldiers. and the father and uncle were very passionate about the fact that their children changed and they couldn't do anything about it. and i think that's the important point here. >> congressman ellison, do you agree that-- do you see it as a significant problem in the muslim-american community that needs to be addressed? >> well, one of the points i made in my own testimony is that i voted in favor of jane harmen's bill to study violent extremism. the harmen bill did not single out one religion so of course i see it as a very serious problem. faisal shahzad did try to blow up fullo americans in times

square, and nidal hassan did kill members of our society. look, obviously, it's a serious problem, but so is jared loughner a problem, so is timothy mcveigh a problem, so are the people who killed citizens at virginia tech and columbine and so many other places a problem. when a citizen goes from law abiding to kill for religion or some set of ideas, this is something we must pay close attention to, and in my opinion, we don't know nearly enough about it. so in my opinion, obviously, this is a very important topic. i'm focused on it. i've spoken on it. i have written on it and i will continue to be engaged. >> so what did you both hear-- and i'll begin with you, congressman mccall-- about why it is occurring in this community and what more could be done that would be more effect 95 countering it? >> well, in a lot of these cases whether major hassan, as

congressman ellison mentioned, a lot of the common thread here are the cleric alwalkie. he had a lot of communications with assad before he killed the 13 soldiers in fort hood, and there is a radicallization taking place, whether through e-mails or the internet with these jihadist web sites, which the attorney general and secretary napolitano have agreed is an imminent danger to the united states. so i think we need to get a better grasp on who are the bad apples in our society that we can focus on. i think where the congressman and i would agree is that's going to come through not ostracizing the muslim community but bringing them in. i worked in the justice department, and the outreach here is critically important that we work with the muslim community as a partner, not in opposition to them, to work together to identify the problem areas. >> congressman ellison? >> yeah, i do agree. i think that mike is right about

that. in my own city of minneapolis we have seen law enforcement reaching out to the muslim community and have seen people try to build trusts so folks will come forward and they will talk about what needs to be talked about to protect our community. here's the reality-- we need to establish a level of trust so that the community feels that the criminals are the targets, not the community. that was one of the unfortunate aspects of the way this hearing was framed, but i tell you this, i do think that building trust is critically important, being on the web sites, making sure we know what the internet traffic is, is important. and i also think it's critically important to really-- in the muslim context-- to attack the ideology that people like al-awlaki use, and i think the muslim community can be very helpful in refuting what they claim the koran and islamic doctrine say about these issues. >> that takes us right to my

last question. we don't have a lot of time, but congressman king raised and said again yesterday, from law enforcement people he talked to, there isn't enough cooperation from the muslim american community. the sheriff today seemed to suggest otherwise. where did today's hearing leave that question in your mind, fairly briefly, if you can? >> i think the answer is we have a lot of work to do. there are some groups we pointed out today who tell the muslim community, lock your doors, don't talk to the f.b.i., and i think that's the wrong approach. this should be a mutual partnership. i've always said-- and we were-- i've always said the moderate muslim is the most effective weapon against the radical extremists. and i think we need to partner with the moderate muslim, whether in our country or overseas to defeat the terrorists. and i think pete king talked a little bit about political correctness, and i think as mr. valatzo mentioned the pink elephant in the room, i think we have to look at this in a

color-blind way that there is a problem here. >> congressman ellison, briefly on that point, law enforcement. >> let me just say this-- the whole point about the political correctness, i don't feel is a valid point. i often fear that people throw political correctness out because they want to stereotype but they don't want to be accused of stereotyping. i don't think there's any danger of political correctness here. what i also want to say, though, is when it comes to the issue of law enforcement, at the end of the day, the muslim community has been an amazingly engaged and helpful. a number of the studies that came out show upwards of 40% of the reported tips come from the muslim community. the muslim community has been instrumental in thwarting efforts to commit terrorist attacks. i don't think we should confuse cooperation with law enforcement and abdication of people's-- merge's basic civil rights. that aproves rights to seek

council if they're going to be talked to directly and they're the target of an investigation. that's something i don't think we should ask any american to give up, but, absolutely, cooperation is essential. >> all right, thank you both. >> woodruff: next, we turn to the interview with the father of accused wikileaks source, private bradley manning. kwame holman puts it in context. >> holman: private bradley manning is the 23-year-old army intelligence analyst accused of stealing thousands of classified government documents and providing them to wikileaks. he is in custody at the u.s. marine brig in quantico virginia where he is confined to his cell 23 hours a day under what's called a prevention of injury watch. last week, there was a change in his imprisonment-- manning was stripped of his clothing at night. manning's attorney, david coombs, has reported the brigs action followed his clients complaint that the so-called prevention of injury restrictions on him were absurd. bradley said if he wanted to

harm himself he could do so with the elastic waistband of his underwear. in an exclusive "frontline" interview this week with correspondent martin smith, bradley manning's father, brian manning, talked for the first time about his son's incarceration. >> reporter: you decided that you wanted to sit down and talk today because you want to complain, publicly about the conditions of his imprisonment. >> yes. >> reporter: and those conditions are? >> well, he's being-- his clothing is being taken away from him, and he's being humiliated by having to stand at attention in front of people-- male, or female, as far as i know, you know, that are fully clothed. >> reporter: who tells you that? >> i read it in-- the statement that was put out by his civilian attorney. i mean, this is someone that is- - has not been a-- you know, gone to trial, or been convicted of anything and that's prompted me to, you know, to come out and go forward. i mean, they worry about people

down in-- you know, in a base in cuba, but here they are-- have someone in-- you know, on our own soil, in-- under their own control, and they're treating him this way. i mean, it's, you know, you just can't believe it. i mean, it's shocking enough that i would come out of you know our silence, as a family, and say, you know, now then, this-- you know, you've crossed the line. this is wrong. >> holman: today, the "newshour" asked the military for a response to brian manning's assertions.

in his interview with "frontline," brian manning says he saw no signs of suicidal intentions in his son. >> reporter: how many times have you visited him? >> approximately, eight or nine times. >> reporter: during those visits, has he ever mentioned any complaint of any kind to you? >> no, i... i always, you know, am conscientious enough to look him straight in the eyes, and ask him a direct question. you know. how are they treating you. are you sleeping? is the food okay? and he's always responded that things were just fine. >> reporter: how does he look? >> he looks good. >> reporter: and he doesn't complain about being shackled? >> no. he doesn't complain at all about anything.

>> reporter: it wouldn't be surprising for somebody in solitary confinement to be suffering a bit. >> oh, i'm sure. >> reporter: it's... it's surprising to me that you describe him as somebody who's doing well. >> he comes across to me as doing well. >> reporter: he's in solitary confinement. that's tremendously difficult-- psychologically, and physically. >> i understand that. >> reporter: are you surprised that he's doing as well as he is? >> i'm happy that he's doing as well as he is. >> reporter: is there any reason that bradley wouldn't confide in you, if things were tough for him, there? >> no. >> holman: brian manning was himself in the service, the navy, where he held a security clearance. stealing and sharing classified information is wrong, he says, and the whole wikileaks situation angers him. but he told martin smith he does not believe his son did what the army has accused him of doing. >> reporter: does it surprise you that bradley had access to this much information? >> yes. >> reporter: what will you say

if it turns out that he leaked these documents? >> i don't know. i mean, i'm not even... i'm not even letting those thoughts come into my head. i'm thinking positively. >> reporter: is that always easy to do? >> yes. >> reporter: you don't think he had it in him to do this? >> i don't think that... that the... the amount, the volume of things, and the environment he worked in, no. i don't think so. >> reporter: you don't think it's possible he... he could have had this kind of intent? >> i don't know why he would do that. i... i really don't. >> reporter: was he patriotic? >> i don't think he followed any regime of any kind. >> reporter: you don't think he was a patriot of the united states? >> i imagine he was just a-- as much as you and i. >> reporter: well, you knew-- he's your son. you knew him. was he patriotic? >> it never came up. i mean, he never said anything anti-american. >> reporter: he joined the-- he joined the army.

>> at my twisting his arm, yeah. >> reporter: so he joined the army because you made him do it? >> i didn't make him. i twisted his arm and urged him as much as a father could possibly urge somebody. >> reporter: he didn't want to join the army? >> no, he did not. and he had expressed that. >> reporter: why did you make him-- or, why did you twist his arm to join the army? >> because he needed structure in his life. he was aimless. and i was going on my own experience, when i was growing up, that's the only thing that, you know, put the structure in my life, was by joining the navy, and everything's been fine since then. >> reporter: from talking to you, it doesn't seem-- i mean, you don't wear your emotions on your sleeve. if you're feeling something about his situation i'm not hearing it. >> well, as you know, we have there's a certain point, you know, when you reach, where you can either accept things, you

know, and... and try and do as much as you possibly can. and then there's no point in dwelling upon it. i mean-- there-- relatively is nothing i can do at this point, except support him, you know, as a father would support a son that... that's in this situation. >> reporter: but that's a very rational answer. emotions don't respond to that kind of logic. >> well, i guess i'm just a right-brained person. you know, i think logically. >> reporter: but you raised this kid. you played with him. now he's sitting in a prison, facing severe penalties. very, very serious charges pending. >> that's correct. >> reporter: i... i would... i would guess that that is very hard to... to square. >> well, as i said, once... once you make the-- you know, the-- can rationalize it, to... to the point is that there-- as i said they're-- all the... the... the things i could possibly do,

you've done. okay. and-- just wait for the next move on the chessboa

>> reporter: five years ago on this stretch of river jeff adams found only one rusty crayfish. >> and yesterday when i got back here for the first time in five years, from the second my foot hit the water, i probably saw 30 or 40 scatter away. >> reporter: since crayfish shipments continue to classrooms, northwest scientists will focus their efforts on teaching the teachers and their children. >> lehrer: you can see an extended version of that story by following a link on our website. >> woodruff: next tonight, the new republican house majority takes on foreign aid. ensuring the well-being of women and children has been a priority for the obama administration's foreign aid agenda. on capitol hill today, secretary

of state hillary clinton defended global health programs. >> these programs stabilize entire societies that have been devastated by h.i.v., malaria, tuberculosis, and other diseases. they save the lives of mothers and children and they halt the spread of deadly diseases. we believe strongly that supporting women and girls is essential to building democracy and security. >> woodruff: the u.s. now spends $474 million on problems faced by women and the president's 2012 budget would add another $372 million. that is just one part of the overall non-military foreign aid budget of $ 37 billion, which the republican majority in the house wants to cut. amid tensions in the middle east -- the war in afghanistan -- and rising deficits, they argue all foreign aid must be tied to national security. yesterday in an interview, former first lady laura bush argued maternal and child health is vital to national security. >> well, it is, really. i think disease and all the

things that we treat are tied to national security in a lot of ways that we maybe don't realize or that the american people don't realize. if other countries have a chance to be stable, then that helps us. now, to the key house republican in charge of appropriating money for foreign aid. congresswoman kay granger, of texas and chair of the foreign operations subcommittee, joins us from capitol hill. >> thank you very much. >> woodruff: so there is a lot of talk right now, congresswoman granger, about foreign aid, but let's begin with this question of maternal and child health. as we just reported, president obama wants to increase the funding for a program that falls under the global health initiative. is that something you support? >> i haven't seen it yet. i'll look at it carefully, but in this time in our nation, it's not a time to increase spending.

what we have to do is look very carefully, prioritize, and see what is the most important thing today. we can't continue to spend at the rate we have in the past, and i believe that very sincerely. what we'll do in this situation-- and i just heard you in your interview with laura bush, and she's right. it is important, maternal health is important, and our global health is important. but right now, at this time in our nation, we have to look at our national security, in particular in foreign aid and say what is in our national security interest. >> woodruff:, when as we heard mrs. bush say in the interview yesterday, supporting mothers, making families stronger is part of national security. would you agree with that? >> i certainly would agree with that. i would agree with that and i've talked to mrs. bush about it, and as you know, i've worked with care, which is very involved, and i'm saying-- nobody is saying we're going to cut everything out, but when we

start to look at priorities in our national security interests, our national debt is hurting our national security. so the first thing we'll look at in this bill, in foreign aid is our funding for places-- nations like israel, where we have a commitment and made a commitment some time ago. iraq as our troops leave iraq and the state department takes over a lot of the responsibilities in iraq. afghanistan, pakistan, and certainly mexico, at our southern border, that is-- the violence is spilling over into our border states, and so funding and helping our neighbor be secure and have a stable economy and safety is very important, and that's where we'll start. >> woodruff: well, help us understand this concept of national security a little bit better, because if it helps our national security to make families stronger, why, for example-- there was a, i believe

a 40% cut in the world-- in the food aid program. why is that not considered vital to national security? >> it's not saying that-- that-- i don't believe it's vital as it is, for instance, securing our borders and help with mexico and their fight against the drug cartels, because it directly affects our national security in this country. but what we're saying is at this time, we're going to have to make some cuts that are going to be painful cuts but they're cuts whether it's some of the climate change parties that of this administration, in in some cases food security. and we're saying at this time and probably in the next few years we can't spend at that level on foreign aid for some of those programs. now there are programs that we'll zero out that i don't think are effective. what we're doing is looking at all the programs and saying has it proved to be cost effect and i have successful and so on a lot of our foreign aid we'll say yes, we'll continue that funding

perhaps at a lower level, but continue the funding. again, the priority in this is our national security and direct national security. it doesn't mean we're cutting all the programs. it means we're taking a very tough look at those programs, giving probably closer oversight than we have in the past. >> woodruff: i also spoke yesterday with dr. helene gale, the c.e.o. of care. she expressed what she said was real worry about what she called misunderstanding among members of congress who she said believe foreign aid is a much bigger part of the budget than it actually is. it's something like 1% of the overall budget. how much of a misunderstanding do you think exists among members of congress? >> there's a huge misunderstanding among some members of congress, but primarily, citizens and taxpayers, our numbers show it's about 1% of the entire federal budget. about 5% of discretionary spending, and that's what we're

focusing on right now is discretionary spending. but there is a misunderstanding. people do say they think it's-- if we cut foreign aid, then we're back-- we're thought in trouble again with our spending. and that's just not the situation. >> woodruff: do you be there's more pressure than is realistic to cut foreign aid, foreign assistance? >> i think there is more pressure because there's some misunderstanding of how much that part of the budget is. if we're really going to cut spending, we have to go in to the entitlements, and that's not the situation with foreign aid. but it's a part of-- it's a part of spend, and certainly a part of the budget. >> woodruff: how far apart right now, congresswoman granger, would you say republicans and democrats are in the house on some of these questions we've been talking about? >> there is a disagreement about the amount of funding, but i'm-- i've always been proud in this budget, in this part of the budget, in foreign aid, and

foreign assistance is probably a more accurate word-- term to use. but it's been a bipartisan bill in the past and i certainly hope it will be a bipartisan understanding and bill in the future. we pride ourselves on that subcommittee to work in a bipartisan way. and, again, this is just the beginning. as we look at those programs and say do we have a matrix that lets us know what's working? you also interviewed melinda gates, and the gates foundation has not only been extremely generous and activity in foreign assistance but also in setting up matrix and ways to look at what is effective and measure that. >> woodruff: well, congresswoman kay granger, we thank you very much for talking with us. this is a story we are going to continue to follow. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> lehrer: again, the major developments of the day: wisconsin republicans finally pushed through curbs on union rights for public employees. economic worries triggered a stock sell-off.

the dow jones industrials average lost 228 points. forces loyal to libyan leader moammar qaddafi claimed they recaptured a key oil port. and at house hearing on radical islam in the u.s., republicans said muslims should do more to fight terror. democrats said muslims were being unfairly singled out. >> woodruff: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. >> lehrer: and i'm jim lehrer. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening with mark shields and david brooks, among others. thank you and good night. major funding for the pbs newshour has been provided by: captioning sponsored by macneil/lehrer productions captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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